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Thread: Ferrari 348 engine-out service + mods

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  1. #1 Thumbs up Ferrari 348 engine-out service + mods 
    This thread is a live journal for the engine-out major service on the 348...

    Backstory: Purchased Dec 2015/Jan 2016 via McLaren Boston, at 37k mi, last documented cam belt service in 2004 at Ferrari of NE.

    Planned maint: Cam belt, tensioner bearings, chain sprocket bearings, cam timing, valve adjustment, oil pump chain tensioner pad and cam chain tensioner pad eval/replacement, misc worn/degraded parts replaced or refinished.

    Planned mods: Tubi test pipes, Capristo exhaust


    Sunday 5/22: 1.5hrs

    - Removed engine cover, set the car up on the lift
    - Changed out the brake pads.... easiest pad change ever




    Monday 5/23:
    2hrs

    - Removed fender well liners, rear bumper, airbox assembly, heat shielding





    Last edited by Itsablurr; 05-25-2016 at 04:20 PM.
    348 - Z3M Roadster - Chevelle - M3

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  2. #2 Default  
    I applaud you. If its not a simple bolt on installation that I can get in and out of in 20 minutes, im not touching it.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigben View Post
    You.... have problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Pete View Post
    you have issues.
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  3. #3 Default  
    I applaud you sir. Looking forward to seeing the progress.
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  4. #4 Default  
    Brass balls. Tip of the cap to you. When it's back together we need to go for a cruise in our 90s dream cars.
    Bath salts and dick pills
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  5. #5 Default  
    not sarcastic here.

    Really appreciate the fact that you listed the hours spent. Because if you (or most likely me) spend 8 hours on 2 hour job because pros can do it more efficiently, I'm more than happy to pay them for their expertise.
    Oh Yeah!
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  6. #6 Default  
    Quote Originally Posted by cheu_f50 View Post
    not sarcastic here.

    Really appreciate the fact that you listed the hours spent. Because if you (or most likely me) spend 8 hours on 2 hour job because pros can do it more efficiently, I'm more than happy to pay them for their expertise.
    Someday you're going to stop crapping on people who enjoy doing things themselves regardless of time required. Today is not that day.
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  7. #7 Default  
    Quote Originally Posted by cegan09 View Post
    Someday you're going to stop crapping on people who enjoy doing things themselves regardless of time required. Today is not that day.
    the day is never. It is not crapping on people who enjoy doing things. We all have our interests and hobbies. It's understanding the price we pay (in time or in cash) how much we are contributing to the hobby.

    Dont take it too personally
    Oh Yeah!
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  8. #8 Default  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheu_f50 View Post
    not sarcastic here.

    Really appreciate the fact that you listed the hours spent. Because if you (or most likely me) spend 8 hours on 2 hour job because pros can do it more efficiently, I'm more than happy to pay them for their expertise.
    It may take them 2, but they will still bill what the book says the job will take (probably at least 4). I'm not sure what the hourly rate is for a Ferrari tech, but I suspect it's higher than most dealers will charge.

    I believe that just the clutch on my Outback is a $2500 job at a Subaru dealer. Turbo replacement on a Z32 300ZX is billed as a 16 hour job.

    I think I did the headgaskets, throw out bearing, new seals, timing belt and all pulleys, oil pan and front axles on the outback for $1200 including the cost of having the heads machined. It took some time, but I knocked it out on the weekends. Garage space is key. DIY wouldn't have been an option if I needed the garage spot.

    -Justin
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  9. #9 Default  
    Quote Originally Posted by cheu_f50 View Post
    the day is never. It is not crapping on people who enjoy doing things. We all have our interests and hobbies. It's understanding the price we pay (in time or in cash) how much we are contributing to the hobby.

    Dont take it too personally
    At the risk of derailing an otherwise great thread, you feel the need to pop in and give a lecture on the value of your time literally every time someone says "DIY". It's infuriating. You don't like spending your time doing things you can pay someone for, great, enjoy that. Don't assume everyone cares as much as you. Some of us literally could not care that we're sinking time into doing things themselves and don't want your lecture every time.
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  10. #10 Default  
    Thanks for the well wishes, guys.

    Wed 5/25: 1.5hr

    - Removed the underbody panels
    - Drained coolant and oil
    - Disconnected some preliminary elec connectors (ABS, speedo/tach)
    - Measurements made for constructing engine dolly: picking up 4 small 2-ton bottle jacks to mount on a constructed 4x4 wooden cart frame, with 4 500lb rated swivel casters from mcmaster-carr due to arrive today.


    Next steps are to continue disconnecting elec/fuel/oil/brake/coolant lines and shift cables. Hope to have the cart assembled and the engine dropped out by the end of the long weekend. Then, the fun begins.


    Quote Originally Posted by jjm4life View Post
    Brass balls. Tip of the cap to you. When it's back together we need to go for a cruise in our 90s dream cars.
    For sure. A good friend of mine has a very clean sebring silver '92 NSX down the street to add into the mix.

    Quote Originally Posted by cheu_f50 View Post
    not sarcastic here.

    Really appreciate the fact that you listed the hours spent. Because if you (or most likely me) spend 8 hours on 2 hour job because pros can do it more efficiently, I'm more than happy to pay them for their expertise.
    The logging of hours spent was something that I am interested in quantifying since there wasn't any real definitive breakdown that I could see. I'm not the slowest mech, but certainly not the fastest either, as this is more of a relaxing and fun project, especially since the lift and stool makes it so much easier and more enjoyable to work on. Some good tunes, wrenches, and a Ferrari in the garage, and it is mental therapy that I look forward to during the course of stressful days at work. I see it as a project of passion, rather than just the dollars and cents against hours. DIY savings in this case are also a (convenient) partial justification towards putting those net $ saved into the lift and exhaust goodies for the car.

    IMO, the best way to get to know and familiarize myself with a car is to do the work on it, especially with some that have a more intimidating aura and mystique from a brand like Ferrari. Admittedly, when I first got the car, I was even hesitant to put a hose to it for a wash. Kind of silly. However, at the end of the day, it is all nuts and bolts just like any other car. It is also satisfying to me to know the exact condition of the parts, how everything is working, and confidence that the job was done correctly and completely, no corners cut or items overlooked. It is a bit of a zen exercise, looking over the assemblies, methodically going through it step by step. There isn't a real budget to worry about, or billable hours, or pressure to get it cranked out and onto another job. In the event that a problem rears its head, there are plenty of guides and a great community for DIY on these cars. My neighbor is a fellow engineer as well, and is just starting to wrap up the major service on his F355, so there is plenty of support to guide the project.

    I can certainly appreciate the time economy in sourcing work out to those that do it for a living. With my M3, if there is major work to be done, off it goes. As a DD, the time and stress simply is not worth it. Last summer, I had it off to the shop for 3 weeks getting the rod bearings done, and every single rubber bushing, mount, or ball joint replaced from front to back. Best thing I could have done for my time and sanity.
    Last edited by Itsablurr; 05-26-2016 at 10:56 AM.
    348 - Z3M Roadster - Chevelle - M3

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  11. #11 Default  
    Subscribing to this thread! How do you like the Max Jack?
    Twitter: @mkeefe / My Company: PixelBit
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  12. #12 Default  
    I like your approach with the whole thing in any case, from the detailed data recording for sale prices, analysis, and the purchase itself to make sure you are not getting fleeced. Doesn't mean the process isnt emotional, but having the right information never hurt

    Would definitely be interested to follow this thread, so I dont get in over my head and go out to buy one
    Oh Yeah!
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  13. #13 Default  
    Quote Originally Posted by mkeefe View Post
    Subscribing to this thread! How do you like the Max Jack?
    It does its job, and is a hundred times better than a trolley jack. However, looking back, if I had to do it over again, I would have gone another route. My neighbor has the mid-rise 'portable' 2-post offering from Universalift, which is substantially better in quality of assembly and robustness of design, once seeing them in person, in proximity. Much heavier duty. I was initially considering the same, but the fact that they were quickly changing through a number of model iterations gave me pause towards future serviceability, esp since they aren't nearly as prolific as Maxjax, along with a 6-8wk lead time. The MaxJax, like I said, does its job, lifts with confidence with a typical car. However, all of the hardware supplied was tossed in a greasy large bag, and was of very poor quality. Parts were missing that took multiple re-shipments to correct, other parts did not fit and required work, sealing design for the bleeder screws is unreliable. It also lifts slightly unevenly, which appears to be a tolerance issue between the hydraulic fittings, but haven't spent enough time swapping parts post-to-post to isolate and confirm. Resolvable, but annoying. The standard wedge anchors are junk by themselves, and barely passable with added expoxy... about a 50% success rate to bite and secure, with the failure mode being the anchor spinning metal on metal within the wedge 'sleeve'. The optional epoxy anchors are much much better, though not enough epoxy is included, requiring an additional tube. So, the only advantages that the MaxJax had was that it was: 1) available immediately, 2) has wheels on the back of the posts to aid in moving, and 3) was a few hundred bucks cheaper. Oh, they also shipped me TWO lifts initially, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by cheu_f50 View Post
    I like your approach with the whole thing in any case, from the detailed data recording for sale prices, analysis, and the purchase itself to make sure you are not getting fleeced. Doesn't mean the process isnt emotional, but having the right information never hurt

    Would definitely be interested to follow this thread, so I dont get in over my head and go out to buy one
    Lol. I'm an engineer, I can't help it... stats and charts and tables.
    Last edited by Itsablurr; 05-26-2016 at 02:00 PM.
    348 - Z3M Roadster - Chevelle - M3

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  14. #14 Default  
    Quote Originally Posted by Itsablurr View Post
    Lol. I'm an engineer, I can't help it... stats and charts and tables.
    Makes 2 of us.

    (if there are more chatter going on here in this thread than you'd like, ill move the posts elsewhere to keep it more in tune as a DIY Journel. Your thread, your call)
    Oh Yeah!
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  15. #15 Default  
    It's no prob
    348 - Z3M Roadster - Chevelle - M3

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  16. #16 Default  
    This is will be a fun one to watch for sure

    As for fcar pcar AND a nsx, count me in
    Bath salts and dick pills
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  17. #17 Default  
    Sat 5/28: 3.5hr

    - Assembled engine cradle dolly.

    Since a portion of the items on the to-do list require removal of the front engine cover to expose the oil pump and cam drive sprocket chain tensioners, which requires removal of the oil sump pan on the underside of the motor, a normal jack table or dolly would not work. A cart to support the engine cradle, but leave the critical access to the underside of the engine was necessary.

    I went to Home Depot, picked up some 4x4, 2x4 and 1x6 stock, 4 2-ton mini bottle jacks from Sears, and 4 500lb rated swivel casters from McMaster-Carr. The 4 bottle jacks should prove very handy in evenly contacting and supporting the engine cradle in a gentle manner during removal from the car, as well as give plenty of precise adjustment to help alignment of the cradle back into the engine bay. One concern is that over-stressing the rear of the car, since it is very fragile without the stuctural engine/cradle bolted in, results in many of the paint/body cracks found along the base of the rear buttresses, where they meet the quarter panel. A phenomenon consistent from 206/246 Dinos, through 308/328 and 348/F355.

    Last edited by Itsablurr; 05-28-2016 at 07:30 PM.
    348 - Z3M Roadster - Chevelle - M3

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  18. #18 Default  
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    Could you make a temporary brace to keep things aligned while you have the cradle out? It doesn't have to take the stress of driving, you could probably make something that would work out of conduit or even pvc. I'm guessing the bottom sides kind of 'sag' inward with the cradle out.
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  19. #19 Default  
    This thread is awesome.

    That is all.
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  20. #20 Default  
    Quote Originally Posted by big pete View Post
    this thread is awesome.

    That is all.
    this
    I am not a 14 year old girl, but I play one on the internet.

    Who was the first person to look at a cow and say 'I don't know what these dangly things are, but I am going to yank on them and drink whatever comes out.'
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