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Thread: Subaru BRZ Concept – STI

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  1. #41 Default  
    well i think we are going to go back and forth on this all day. All im saying is based on what ive seen and read, nothing stands out that would make me say "wow thats pretty cool/amazing". Looks like it will be a good looking car, but for 20K you are paying for some sheet metal and a modern interior. Which is fine if thats what people want, but whats there to get excited about when the MR2 turbo from the 90s can do all of the same thing already?
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  2. #42 Default  
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  3. #43 Default  
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigpoppa822 View Post
    RX8 has 50 more HP and 150ish more lbs. It won't perform the same. Unless they give this car a turbo motor it's a disappointment.
    For driveability you need torque available well through the rev range, something the na rotary lacks (Its ~160ft/lb torque peak is at 5500 rpm).

    If this car hits the claimed weight in the US, I'm not going to be disappointed. No need for a turbo. ~200hp is perfect in a car that weight.

    -Justin

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  4. #44 Default  
    and since we are talking about hyundai


    http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...sema-show.html
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  5. #45 Default  
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    The best news in that item is that the turbo 4 in the genesis coupe gets bumped to 274hp. I'm not sure what they're waiting for. Their family sedan already gets that output from the same motor.

    -Justin

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  6. #46 Default  
    So I am trying to figure out where people are getting the 20k pricing? From what I have read seems to be around 28k
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  7. #47 Default  
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    Not sure where I got that pricing, but I think I've seen it somewhere recently. But just looking for it now, it looks like it'll be somewhere in the 20's. It will come in more expensive than the $19k tC, but less than $30k. Car and Driver Guessed around $23k.

    -Justin

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  8. #48 Default  
    Brand new TC is 20,305 MSRP with no added options or accesories, I forsee the FRS/BRZ ft-86 being around 25k if not higher. And with scions no haggle pay only MSRP pricing you will only be able to get this at MSRP.
    Last edited by streetxdreamer; 11-04-2011 at 08:50 AM.
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  9. #49 Default  
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    If you tip the sales guy $1000. Scion site says the tC is $19,305. IMHO, they need to keep this in the lower $20k's range. Base Miata MSRP is around $23k, and if they inch closer to $30k they're getting into the range where the lower German offerings start to make more sense.

    I've been watching the development of this car for a while, and the back and forth has been pretty frustrating. They originally said it was going to weight 2500 pounds and cost $20k. Then the focus groups were raping the project and Toyota said they were going to upmarket it which required reducing NVH and raising the price. I'm relieved to see the car coming out close to where I wanted it. I can live with 2700 pounds and decently-equipped at $24k.

    I still don't know if I'd get rid of the miata for this and I do need a relatively practical car. I'll have to see one in person to make the call. I could just keep the xB for dog and home depot duty, but having three cars in a condo complex is a pain in the ass over the winter. I have to move them all out of the way for the plows, and there's not an abundance of alternate parking in the middle of a snowstorm.

    Edit: When I say $24k, I'm talking about the Scion version.

    -Justin

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  10. #50 Default  
    when i first saw the concept i was all excited but i slowly lost interest on this car, to me they keep fucking it up more and more

    and who knows how the aftermarket will take to this car. If this thing is running a Toyota ECU good luck trying to turbo and tune the car.
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  11. #51 Default  
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin.b View Post
    Not sure where I got that pricing, but I think I've seen it somewhere recently. But just looking for it now, it looks like it'll be somewhere in the 20's. It will come in more expensive than the $19k tC, but less than $30k. Car and Driver Guessed around $23k.

    -Justin

    I have the latest C&D and a Subaru exec told them 28k. So they have it listed for there. I think Subaru will go a little higher.
    Scion version will be a little less.
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  12. #52 Default  
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    Quote Originally Posted by streetxdreamer View Post
    when i first saw the concept i was all excited but i slowly lost interest on this car, to me they keep fucking it up more and more

    and who knows how the aftermarket will take to this car. If this thing is running a Toyota ECU good luck trying to turbo and tune the car.
    I know people have had a nightmare of a time trying to tune toyota ecu's while keeping it from 'learning' and triggering cel's. This one sounds like it'll be even more difficult, using both direct and port injectors and switching between the two where each is more efficient.

    Sorry about the pricing. They were listing prices for competitors (V6 mustang, Genesis Coupe) http://www.caranddriver.com/news/sci...car-and-driver

    I don't even car what the thing looks like. I was just hoping for a light rwd 2+2 and it looks like this will be just that. Of course, it's not released yet and this is Toyota. Their last performance car took a decade to develop and their development process never took into account that performance benchmarks had moved. Out of the other end of their craptacular development process came the LFA, priced 50% too high and not matching (nevermind beating) the performance of other cars in the segment. Who would ever have thought that Toyota could make a Ferrari look like the bargain choice.

    -Justin
    Last edited by Justin.b; 11-04-2011 at 09:46 AM.

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  13. #53 Default  
    they did great when they did the IS-F, big motor in an already existing chassis that competed with the german veterans in that segment.

    I still think the LFA is awesome, specs are right on. just not the price.

    this new creation, while i dont think itll flop because of all the noise it has been creating. Its really a toss up to how well it will do.
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  14. #54 Default  
    i recall reading about the 20K price point a while back. i guess before this article came out

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...-appeal-goals/

    if its not 20K, thats even less of a reason for this car to make a difference. What they have now is a car thats not exceptionally light, 200hp isnt a whole lot, and it wont be cheap at all.
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  15. #55 Default  
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    It's not going to be $20k. It will be priced higher than the tC. It's just a question of how much higher.

    -Justin

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  16. #56 Default  
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    2700 pounds IS exceptionally light by today's standards.

    That puts it about 600 pounds lighter than a 1-series or genesis coupe and close to 1000 pounds lighter than a Mustang (only weight number I could find was for the boss 302 @ ~3632 pounds). Hell, it's even 300 pounds lighter than the tC. It's closer in weight to an Elise (~2000 pounds) than an M3 (~3700 pounds).

    I'll admit that vehicle weight isn't everything... but it almost is.

    -Justin

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  17. #57 Default  
    Quote Originally Posted by Justin.b View Post
    2700 pounds IS exceptionally light by today's standards.

    That puts it about 600 pounds lighter than a 1-series or genesis coupe and close to 1000 pounds lighter than a Mustang (only weight number I could find was for the boss 302 @ ~3632 pounds). Hell, it's even 300 pounds lighter than the tC. It's closer in weight to an Elise (~2000 pounds) than an M3 (~3700 pounds).

    I'll admit that vehicle weight isn't everything... but it almost is.

    -Justin
    not arguing thats its pretty light but when most people buy cars they look at hp or fuel economy
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  18. #58 Default  
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    Quote Originally Posted by streetxdreamer View Post
    not arguing thats its pretty light but when most people buy cars they look at hp or fuel economy
    Then this car is not for them.

    Seriously, this isn't going to be shopped against corollas and civics. It's a niche car not meant for the average shopper looking at hp or mpg. I think it's meant for people like me who have been holding their breath for a decade waiting for the next 240sx.

    -Justin

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  19. #59 Default  
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    Quote Originally Posted by streetxdreamer View Post
    not arguing thats its pretty light but when most normal people buy cars they look at hp or fuel economy
    Fixed.

    I would thing that all if not most of us here are enthusiasts and are weighing everything.


    Cheu,

    Whenever it is that you decide to track your 748 you'll see that HP isn't needed to be "fast". Your bike is "slow and heavy" by todays standards, yet in the right hands it can be faster than most shmucks with power and all the gadgets on their bikes.
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  20. #60 Default  
    Quote Originally Posted by Duey View Post
    Fixed.

    I would thing that all if not most of us here are enthusiasts and are weighing everything.


    Cheu,

    Whenever it is that you decide to track your 748 you'll see that HP isn't needed to be "fast". Your bike is "slow and heavy" by todays standards, yet in the right hands it can be faster than most shmucks with power and all the gadgets on their bikes.
    i am weighing everything. and when I see a car with performance that is no better than a honda S2000 from 10 years ago, I start to question why people are excited about it's performance. Im not saying you need tons of power to be fun, but the combo between the 2700lbs and 200hp is mediocre. You need both weight and power to have a great sports car. And all i see is light weight, so I hope it handles like a Lotus Elise. Because otherwise it's just not light enough to have sublime handling (a miata weighs 2400lbs and mazda want to cut weight on the next model), and it doesnt have enough power to make up for everything else.
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